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With the country spiraling deeper into recession, the Federal Reserve is ready to slash its key interest rate - perhaps to an all-time low.
Fed appears ready to cut key interest rate again
Seeded on Sun Dec 14, 2008 4:13 PM EST
Article Source: msnbc.com- Enjoy this article? Help vote it up the 'Vine.
- Public Discussion (302)
Send them to the best schools of the country and still they cant get it. Repeating what hasn't worked results in more of the same. This is basic troubleshooting. But I'll just sit back and laugh when they show just how much they dont get it when they try to multiply it. 700B x 0 still = 0.
- 11 votes
I agree Chuck, they just don't get it, still throwing money into a fire and only feeding the flames and burning tax dollars at the same time. There are only a few benefiting from this waste and it certainly is not the majority of the masses.
I'm not laughing though because it's also so sad watch our government thrashing about like someone who doesn't know how to swim, taking everyone else down with them in their panic and desperation.
The best way to survive in powerful ocean currents is not fight it and lose your energy and strength but to go with the flow until it eventually subsides. Panic and fighting against it will only end up in drowning quickly.
This vicious Recession/Depression is like that overpowering current that will swallow up everything and will only end when has finished its course.
Lets hope that we don't all drown in this mess.
- 10 votes
Borrow borrow borrow... that's what they want us to do. How about we create a paradigm shift on our own by no longer borrowing money for anything, i.e., no more mortgages, car loans or credit cards. It is WE who are feeding the fire. As long as we demand debt money, they will supply it.
Bottom line should be: if you can't pay cash for something, you can't afford it.
- 17 votes
Amen! Stop penalizing savers. Let's raise the interest rate and find the bottom asap. Then let 50% of the banks go out of business and make the financial industry the second-tier vertical it always should have been.
Painful, yes, but this credit insanity has to stop.
- 7 votes
Amen!!! What is with Washington that they just do not get it.
But then, please tell me what bank is going to offer people loans.
- 5 votes
Insanity = "When you keep doing the same thing over and over and over and you keep getting the same results and you refuse to do something differently."
What in the world is wrong with these peope? Cheap money got us into this mess in the first place. And they want to do this again?
Anyway, cheaper interest rates on mortgages just means the mortgage itself gets larger. In a capitalistic society, we're going to make as much money as we want, so what the fed isn't helping anyone.
- 9 votes
If the government wants to help the economy,they need to bail out the ones who keep the economy going...."the people who buy things".The banks dont buy things,the auto makers dont buy things,....the lower and middle class buy things! If the intrest rate is 0% but you have no money or credit to buy it with...why buy it? If you bail out a business or a bank they are only going to hold on to it or invest it.If you bail out someone who needs money to BUY food or PAY bills they will put money to that,and then when all the bills are paid,there is food on the table,and they have a roof over their head then they will go and BUY things and PUT money back into businesses and banks and buy a new car.
I agree, interset rates should go up. Banks need money to lend? Raise the rates so people will put money into the banks, no need to lend it to them.
- 4 votes
Greg,
I take it you are not an accountant? Look at the four things happening at the same time and see what is being pushed. Mortgage rates will go down to about 4.5% or lower. This is to encourage those that have money sitting around to buy. Banks ability to borrow at an all time low. This will allow them to loan money at a lower rate and still make money. Again encouraging people to borrow and spend. Now comes the other two components of the situation. When interest rates that the banks can borrow is lowered so is the interest they will pay you on money. The forth is that in order to do this low interest money loaning to the banks more money is going to have to be created. The more money printed or created the less each dollar is worth.
When all of these four factors are combined you have only two options. You buy something that you believe will appreciate so that the money you have will hold its current value or possibly gain or you hold on to your money and watch its value go down. This money management that is being forced on us is going to work one way or the other. Buy stuff or lose the value of your cash.
You are right it is exactly what happened in the past that put us in this position but we are not going to be able to stop it. Spend it or watch it lose. I am going to buy a new house hoping that it will be worth more than I paid for it. The only thing that will happen if I hold on to my cash is that it will lose its value. This cycle is simply going to repeat over and over. You have to get in at the right time and out at the right time, unfortunately we are not the people who get to decide when the time is right.
- 3 votes
Roger, not sure what you mean by "watch it lose". Are you referrring to savings in stock market & real estate? If so, you're suggesting to us that by getting more in debt we can reverse the slide?
I think Greg & I are among the many that see right through this nonsense and are suggesting that we all take a step back, decrease our debt, increase our savings and yes, accelerate our way to the bottom. Building another Ponzi scheme, like you suggest, is a recipe for prolonged pain and another disaster down the road.
To top it off, the government should mandate that a minimum of 30% should be put down up front for any loan. Don't have it? Save for it!
- 3 votes
I agree with greg and peter,
If the country keeps thinking we need to keep spending and getting into debt, it will continue to collapse. debt has destroyed millions, real estate is dropping, that takes equity out, and those who have maxed thier equity have lost alot maor than sacking it in a pillow. cash is cash right now, If anything buy silver gold or some other valuable, dont use credit, becuase if you do, and something gets missed, you watch your dollar lose alot more.
The dollar will slid under the weight of bailout printing, job losses ( you cant tax unemployed people with income tax) and credit, we have pumped up credit so far its our GDP. and when everyone keeps thinking thier 400$ is really worth 200$ if you dont spend it they wake up and realize thier nothing is worth nothing. geez. what a crazy way to think, and so many think just that.
- 3 votes
Over spending with loose credit and heavy debt and not enough savings created this mess. Encouraging the same thing to get us out this mess will only create another cycle of disaster.
Unfortunately, it seems that this what we have been led to believe is good for the economy and for prosperity. The proof that it's not working well is the national debt which has been increasing for years and is even worse now.
Every cycle or bubble we go through becomes worse and so does the debt. Sooner or later we are going to have a complete crash which could very well be this cycle.
- 2 votes
Roger, you state that you are going to buy a new house, hoping that it will be worth more than what you paid for it.
Well, that's EXACTLY what got us into this mess in the first place, and you want to tell me I'm wrong, and you're right?
I certainly respect that you've expressed your opinion. And, no, I am not an accountant.
However, I have an MBA in economics. I, personally, have no debt. I, personally, don't believe in debt except for medical emergencies.
I, personally, feel that lowering interest rates to make money cheaper will only make housing prices artificially inflate - AGAIN - and we're back to where we started.
Best to All!
- 4 votes
In the Great Depression the rate went as low as 1/4%. I bet we see 0% this time. Anyone ready for a 10 year repeat of the Japanese malaise?
- 4 votes
There has been floated an idea of a 0% rate. Problem is, even at 0%, if the banks horde the money, and consumers still loose their jobs, it isn't going to help squat. What this country needs is for the government to put a moritorium on forclosueres, demand repayment from banks that won't loan to businesses, direct public/taxpayer ownership stakes in companies that get bailed out and stronger unions to ensure the working class don't get hosed as upper management gets millions or more in compensation.
- 6 votes
First of all it's a shame Bernanke kept raising the rates over the last few years.
Second, maybe all you people don't understand what is really going on and they
are trying to do whatever they can to stave off a great depression. That will
affect everyone, not just those who "bought more house than they could afford"
- 2 votes
techie-raising rates is exactly what Bernanke should have done!! Easy money and easy credit got us to this point. Your point is absurd! Throwing more money and more capital into the system to enable more americans to go further into debt will only make matters worse!! An inflationary depression is coming either way...you can't stop it!
- 4 votes
They just don't get it!! People cannot spend more, small business cannot spend more when they don't have it!!! People don't have it because they're out of a job; it's as simple as that!! Small business' doesn't have it because people are not buying because they're out of a job!! What does it take for these idiots in Washington to realize that nothing will get better until people are able to go back to work so they will have money to spend????? Is this rocket science or just common sense???
- 4 votes
Roger,
The Fed fund rates and mortgage rates are completely separate, over the past year while the Fed was cutting the Fed fund rates, mortgage rates actually skyrocketed higher.
Banks raising mortgage rates in the middle of a housing crisis is just stupid.
Only now have mortgage rates started falling. Since technically IMHO the fed owns the banks (we gave them trillions, we should be able to tell them what to do), the fed should just set mortgage rates to what they want.
Also, with Credit Card companies, they could set there interest rate to whatever they want no matter that you even never miss a payment.
- 2 votes
There is no money without debt folks. It's controlled debt and this country benefitted in many ways as a result.
The banks need regulation --they tried to hide bad loans in securities while continuing to take on bad loans. That's what got us into this trouble. Greed pure and simple.
- 4 votes
You know this is the fault of gays marrying? Right?
And if that was not bad enough- Fox News is reporting that Tom Cruise will not redeem himself by dressing up in a Nazi Uniform- It's over for America.
- 3 votes
The morons at the Fed are way too hung up on interest rate cuts. That's not going to solve the problem.
"Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."<br>--Albert Einstein
Yep, lending between the banks at a reduced interest rate isn't going to help the taxpayer one bit!
Why should the Federal Reserve give a hoot about us? They aren't even a US government owned bank. They were named to deceive the people into thinking just what the average person thinks.........that they are part of our government. Ask the Rothchilds who owns the Federal Reserve, the Bank of England, The Bank of France and every major bank in the World.
- 4 votes
I think what's happening is that the Fed is once again helping banks with the new low exchange rate. I am by no means a finance expert, but this occurs to me.
The banks are hoarding money.
The banks aren't lending to small business or consumers.
they aren't lending to each other because they don't trust each other (imagine that, will you!!)
The banks are raising credit card rates to help pay for their past bad business decisions.
Consumers aren't borrowing because they are afraid of what the future holds. My job, my current debts..... no way will consumers bring on more debt.
I am sure I'm missing a few other points, but for discussions sake this works. Small business is the oil in the wheels of progress, or so we are all told. Small Business employs most US Citizens, so as they go, so goes their employees.
I dont think banks are now the solution to this dilemma, since they aren't even in the game. I think banks are part of the problem. The Fed should be offering small business low cost/no cost loans to get them going again, and hiring.
The Fed should be doing something about the home owners who are rapidly approaching forclosure on their homes. If you help the "middle class" and help small business, the results will begin to be felt on a "trickle up" fashion. (GOD forgive me for using the trickle word, please?)
Why are the auto companies in the tank? well, among other things, buyers cannot get loans to buy the freaking cars, no matter how much the auto makers modernize and improve their product. HELLO.... no money to buy cars out here, you bunch of dumbasses!!!
It's time to let the banks fend for themselves. They got their bailouts, and didn't do what they were supposed to do with the money.. that being LEND some out!!
Am I making any sense? Am I dilusional? Am I the one toking on a "fatty"???? If it isn't me, then someone sure is!!! Nothing the Fed does works.... TRY SOMETHING ELSE ALREADY!!!
- 4 votes
Deflation means a widespread — and prolonged — decline in prices that hits Americans’ incomes and corporate profits, as well as already stricken housing values and investments. Lower rates by the Fed would help fend it off.
This just won't work today or tomorrow. All corporations will add "fees" to eat up what an American Taxpayer would benefit. Corporate profit is all they care about....nothing else. Thats why every news article starts off with what corp is hurting, you see nothing about what tax payers have to do to survive, or news on where the "new" homeless are staying...its just all about Corp profit and it will remain that way until the American Taxpayer is done, gone, out of $$, on the streets and homeless, walking towards Canada.
America will do nothing to help Americans unless it means Corporations will get all the money back due to trickle down economics, of coarse we all know there is that funnel that all money eventually falls into and gets dumped right into the pockets of Congress, Washington, Wall Street, and the Fed Reserv. They will only do something that makes them even more wealthy. I'm so tired of hearing that they are working to solve the problems...because the "problems" they are solving is how to get the new lining sewn into their pockets.
- 4 votes
This whole thing is like some bad dream. The government is going to think our way out of what they thought our way into in the first place.
I do not want the government to tell me what I can borrower. I expect them to protect the money we pay in taxes to provide the safety and security that a government provides to their citizens. Low interest rates are good for people that need to borrower money -however, the banks need to be willing to lend the money in the first place. Our lovely government gave them money so that they could lend but the banks are using it for other things. Every time the government touches our money we are deeper in a hole.
Could have fixed this problem with other actions rather than just throwing money at the problem. The banks have always and will always do what is in their best interest.
Maybe the government can focus on protecting our industries, our workers, our jobs and our security. If this is what they did everyday then maybe we would not be in the fix that we are in. Rather, they get bribed to pass legislation that allows banks to run wild and push social agendas that are ill conceived.
Our leaders have no accountability because we like it when they lie to us. We need to stop our complacent attitude. We need to hold these people responsible. Until we do that all this other stuff is just idle chatter. No integrity and no accountability equals the mess we are in.
- 3 votes
This is what banks can borrow the money at not the consumers. What this will do is lower the interest rates the banks will pay you for money you have in the bank. Those that are fortunate enough to have money in the bank will see their interest rates reduced when your CDs mature. It will also lower what you are getting on your IRAs. Be very careful to read the fine print when putting money in the banks. Most of them say the rates can be changed at any time.
The intent of a move like this is twofold. It will give banks enough money to make loans and at the same time those that have money in the bank will be encouraged to buy stuff. If you are not making anything on your money why save it? A move this drastic will benefit those that don't have but punish those that do.
- 2 votes
Peter is right---stop punishing people who save and the banks will have money again. However, with the high prices, low wages and increasing health insurance payments, who has money to save? After all, these banks are sitting on money to give bonuses to their executives.
The Federal Reserve System (also the Federal Reserve; informally The Fed) is the central banking system of the United States. Created in 1913 by the enactment of the Federal Reserve Act, it is a quasi-public (government entity with private components) banking system[1] that comprises (1) the presidentially appointed Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System in Washington, D.C.; (2) the Federal Open Market Committee; (3) twelve regional Federal Reserve Banks located in major cities throughout the nation acting as fiscal agents for the U.S. Treasury, each with its own nine-member board of directors; (4) numerous private U.S. member banks, which subscribe to required amounts of non-transferable stock in their regional Federal Reserve Banks; and (5) various advisory councils. As of February 2006, Ben Bernanke serves as the Chairman of the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System.
Clear up some confusion: Lower/higher intesest rate is not an indication of easy money or easy credit!!! Ineretest rate has nothing to do with available funds or supply side of funds. The interest rate deters or induces would be borrowers (the demand side).
I assume our Treasury is trying to get the banks to loosen up the supply of credit, because the banks are deeming that we, Americans, are not worthy borrowers. That may come from (a) lack of collateral (b) poor economy (c) unstable valuation. Like our Big 3, they can't get a loan!!! It is not because the Big 3 are loosing money. No, I belive the banks can not properly valuate what the Big 3 have and where they will be.
If the Fed steps in (note: they are not the Treasury), and props up the loan. I believe the Fed indicates to the Bank that THIS IS THE FLOOR. And if the banks believes the Fed, then there may be point where valuation can have a minimal point (where valuation can start - no matter how low or how high). It is a starting point. Ideally from there (b) economy will hit bottom and stablize (not a rebound, but a point of stability). Only then can (a) collateral happen.
It is insane right now! I hear banks requiring 30% to 40% down from borrowers to lend money to purchase homes (larger loans). To me, this is a clear indication that banks are still uncertain of the future. Remember, the banks make their money on the uptick of the economy. They are wives hording money.... had to sneak that in:-)
Good of those who can afford to buy low and sell high. Here is your opportunity. For those who are still hording or saving... What are you waiting for??? Waiting until you can no longer afford the house of your dream??? Investers risks, BANKS like to think that they are investors. They are, but very VERY SHEEPISH....
- 1 vote
Roger, Greg - you are both right ... but for different reasons.
Roger - the actions of the FED are highly inflationary - adding Fed money to make up for the loss of so called "loan" money "created" by the banks through lending may increase the money supply. A low Fed Funds rate may encourage some of the population who can "still" borrow to borrow. The problem is that most of these guys are already rich, and are unlikely to borrow for consumption - ie buy a new house.
Greg - you are also right ... This response to the "deflation" which was predicted several months ago can do 3 things: 1. Fail to stop the deflation that will eventually gut our economy (1930s/1830's) since the financial system will fail, banks will all become the worthless ponzi shells that they are, and we will be up the creek 2. over shoot the inflation numbers and cause hyper inflation - creating 1970's style stagflation - High inflation and rates, low employment and economic growth - likely on a much greater scale. 3. They time it just right and can start raising rates at just the right time. More of the same!
The problem is 2 major issues that make 1 or 2 the most likely outcomes:
1. As in Japan in 1992 and 1930s monetary actions such as these are useless once a deflation has begun. It requires "fiscal" policies to correct. The FED can do whatever it wants, but if people decide that prices are going to continue to fall, and that investment is "risky" there is little that can fix it other than time, money (think New Deal) for average people, and maybe a good war!
2. If we are really lucky and all this socialism for the rich called TARP has cut off deflation at the pass, its going to take some really masterful reading of the tea leaves to figure out when to remove the monetary policy before stagflation comes in. Even if they got it right, the raising of rates and removal of credit long before the "recession" is done will be a real tough political move ...
All in this move by the FED does not exude confidence ... it is more of the same stuff that we have seen since September.
As for buying a house right now, I would consider which of the 3 above would make that a good choice and consider it carefully .... but for me I consider my house a "home" and not an investment so all of this is irrelevant.
They think people can borrow money, what the hell are they possibly thinking; I think Bush and company should be put in Jail TODAY; He and his family are THUGS.
They think people can borrow money, what the hell are they possibly thinking; I think Bush and company should be put in Jail TODAY; He and his family are THUGS
Sandman,
What exactly would the charges be? Would you put Congress in jail too? He can not really do anything without their approval.
Of course blame Bush. Why not. Easy to do.
Glad there are so many experts on the having and lending of money.
cut it to 0% we are not buying, we need $$$$$$...jobs-jobs=$$$$$
- 10 votes
#2 - Sun Dec 14, 2008 4:16 PM ESTEveryone should be taking a buying sabbatical this holiday season.
If you really must do something volunteer for the community or church.
You'll feel a lot better and be making a statement.
- 4 votes
How much $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ can I expect to make doing volunteer work for the community? And, can I have flex hours? After how many days of work (whether I show up or not) will I receive my 50% raise? How many vacation days do I get automatically when I show up on the first day?
Just checking, like any good American worker!
(Oh, one more thing, which union would I be a member of when and if I show up to do volunteer work?)
We live in a world where 70% of the economy is consumer spending. The idea of circulating money to spur economic growth is nothing new on the same note government jobs to raise employment numbers through public works is not new either. I don't see a real bold plan here. Big time inflation isn't really fun of course high unemployment isn't either. So I guess our leaders can pick our poison for better or worse. I think the defination of rich should be reevaluated here real soon because money might not go as far as it did in the good old days and the good old days may be now.
- 2 votes
Carlos,
The problem that you see are a bunch of guys who can't see outside the box. The fractional reserve banking system is not a sustainable model for an economy. It requires massive amounts of maintenance and regulation to stop it from imploding like any ponzi scheme. Trying to save something like that is the real problem. In the last 40 years we have spent lots of money, time and energy trying to "fix" it, and it just becomes more and more volitile, stumbling from one bubble to the next.
This is because the system is based on a mathematical theory which cannot be sustained. Our monetary system is based on exponential growth of the money supply through debt. 95% of the money in our economy is created through the issuance of debt. We don't create interest on that debt, but create new debt to pay the interest on the old debt - viola - exponential growth of the debts. This leads to 2 things - inflation or deflation. We have tried to control inflation as the problem worsened, but has given up and just created more money based on the same basket of actual goods that we have - ie. collateral. To hide this mess, we count inflation using goods that are not used as collateral - food, clothing, etc ... Therefore, we mask inflation in Real Estate, Investments/business interests, etc. Then we can have low "inflation" high Growth - what we had for the last 15 years.
We have seen huge bubbles, but the politicians and bankers have covered up one blow up with a new bubble. Now the jig is up. The only real sustainable solution to this mess is to bring the economy back into equilibrium. The means prices of collateral have to fall, or wages have to rise or some combination of both. Even if they somehow manage to pull this off (10000 to 1 shot) the resumption of the same old game will just land us here again when the baby boomers crisis hits us again in 10 -15 years.
The only sustainable solution is to throw out the 200 year old + fractional reserve system, have governments actually control the money supply directly, or even better get out of the currency game altogether. This would mean the end of banks as we know them, significant damage to wall street, and changes to the economy - but at the end of the day, looking to a destabilizing force like the FED as a place for stability is stupid.
- 1 vote
Well, Chuck for my part in this mess is that all politicans are crooks , and apparently the govt. is taking of their cronies .
They gave our money to the biggest crooks, I watched TV this morning and the news reported that there are people are rioting aginst their government , how interesting that a nation would have a people with enough balls to stand up and even die for their beliefs to express their anger and frustration , maybe ??????????? Terry
- 5 votes
#3 - Sun Dec 14, 2008 4:26 PM ESTCarol.... I totally agree. It's time for a revolt. We all need to take our Country back.
- 3 votes
Terry, I agree the politicians from both corrupt associations we call party's have flim flammed the public for years. We let them give us lip service about change and then sit back and watch while the same old retreads are trotted out and the same policies are reinvented and called bold, inventive or some other creation of the great thinkers. The loyal minions of the party's are the enemy of progress and their willingness to support inept partisans keeps the country in a constant state of political turmoil. The partisan rancor, death by a thousand cuts goes on for the entire time between elections no matter who is in charge. The defenders of the empowered cry foul to this behavior never admitting it was their tactic when their scoundrel's were out of power. The hyprocrisy must be hilarious to objective observers. We are screwed and will continue to be screwed as long as we support this insane system run by the most corrupt leaders money can buy. I don't give a damn which partisan crooks you support, demand that they do the right thing! Watch them and don't apologize for their inaction or inept administration. If and when the people get really fed up with business as usual something might change right now I don't see anything changing.
- 2 votes
They keep cutting the rate but i don't see any of the benefits with my credit cards. I hope the mortgage rates get down to 4% so i could re-finance. BTW, i haven't bought anything of significance to help boost the economy because I HAVE NONE!!
- 8 votes
#4 - Sun Dec 14, 2008 4:27 PM ESTThats not the right rate they keep cutting; Their just trying to make a good showing;; it's for looks only;; They want to make it look like they gave it their ALL!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It's a SCAM............
Hay, doc and chuck, I forgot to welcome you all to communism seems that a little guy in Germany kind of did the same thing.
- 3 votes
#5 - Sun Dec 14, 2008 4:30 PM ESTBailout money was given to the Banks and they in turn bought out more failing banks increasing their size,now their to big to fail, and when they do fail, the government will need to bail them out again. Banks are not lending the money they received from the bailout, small businesses and individuals alike cannot get loans. Why were there not provisions put on this money. No help to home owners, no help to small businesses and no help to individuals (WHO PAYS TAXES?)
#6 - Sun Dec 14, 2008 4:39 PM ESTI believe the following, I think we have been duped and scammed for many years now and are just seeing the beginning of the end for AMERICA...
Maybe we need a revolution of sorts, none of the money to bailout the financial institutions has made it's way to Mainstreet..I feel we are in a DIRE STRAITS and need jobs and bailouts ourselves not just cutting %'s...
Maybe this whole thing was planned, maybe the CEO's are not being paid for doing a bad job, just maybe they are being paid for doing their jobs and bankrupting this country..I wonder if the Owners and Powers that be felt that if they can bankrupt the USA they could control the banks, employment, wages and everything else that makes a country run..
I don't know maybe some food for thought...What I do know is usually big bonuses are paid for doing a good job, whatever it may be...
- 4 votes
#7 - Sun Dec 14, 2008 4:48 PM ESTYes, we have been duped and scammed. But at the same time our community greed has gotten us in this mess. Buy! Buy! Buy! Don't worrry about how you are going to pay for it. Even now, ads on TV are pushing TV's and cars................no money down, no payments for six months. (oh, look dear. We can get a new car for nothing) . Six months later (Oh, look dear, we cannot make the payments). I get almost ill watching the zillions of car commercials (over and over and over again). If you had a Big Wheel as a kid, oh, now you deserve a really cool car. No money? No problem. Pay for it later. Yes, I'm afraid we are all victims of our own greed.
- 7 votes
But would we have been so "greedy" if we knew the truth about Banks, the Fed Reserv, and Wallstreet's scams, (I'll also include Washington on this)?
Can you call an American greedy if the very government that runs the country is telling you to spend spend spend, you will save your country. Its almost like a draft to save the country; SPEND your $$$, and you will be a hero. We lack judgement, but we are not as greedy as we are being forced to feel. We are following our leaders! like good little Americans, and you call us greedy??? This is the problem, we follow our corrupt leaders and then blame ourselves or each other when their (leaders) plan does not work. They have raised us to believe we can spend without recourse and that what they tell us is gold, and that they (leaders) do not have to feel blame because the outcome was "unforeseen"!!!!!
Hitler is the only one we charge for the holocaust, and so in our future history our leaders will hold the charge for this crime as well, so why dont we hold them to it today????? Why Americans do we allow them to punch us in the face, help us get on our feet, to just punch us again, and then they help us up again only with the agenda to punch us in the face over and over as long as we let them "help" us up????
- 1 vote
The federal reserve system and those that it employs seems to have a severe learning disability. Check out what happened to Japan when they did this. Check out what the fed. reserve did to create and continue the crash of 29, check out what happens every time they lower the rates. obviously the Harvard School of business tough them little.
- 3 votes
#9 - Sun Dec 14, 2008 4:57 PM ESTthats because they arent helping the little people, they are crashing the competition of banks that are not part of the families that have controlled the federal reserve since the beginning. Just look at what familes started the fed, look at how they all left the stock market the day before the crash in 1929, and how many banks they bought up cheap as hell as a result of the crash. Crashes = further consolidation of the banking monopaly. But thats only one side of the coin.
- 2 votes
It's time to cash in whatever money you have in the bank and put it under your mattress, at least the bank can't loan out your money you worked so hard for your whole live. It's like 70 years ago again. Thanks to our brilliant leaders of this country.
- 1 vote
Barry-I agree with cashing out your money. But don't keep it in the dollar....the dollar and Treasury Bills are the last bubble that will burst. Move your money into something tangible...like gold, silver, or other currencies. I like Singapore!
- 2 votes
Absolutely, no need to stuff dollars into your mattress cause when you pull those dollars out they are going to be worthless.
I say Euros. (Which have the added benefit of being accepted at the Red Light district in Amsterdam. SO, if worse comes to worse, we can at least party at the end of time.)
- 2 votes
Why is nothing being said by the Bush administration about Wall Street and the financial industry not using the bailout funds for the purpose in which they were given?
- 7 votes
#10 - Sun Dec 14, 2008 4:58 PM ESTBecause they really do not care...There was never any oversight put on these Financial institutios to make sure the money they got flowed through the country..The banks are hording the money and bankrupting the rest of the world...
- 5 votes
And we have our Congress to thank for not adding in those oversights and protecting the taxpayer when they passed the bailout. Instead they added 150 billion more in pork.
- 8 votes
Buy guys! Don't you remember paulson and bernanke telling us if we didnt push through the bailout plan as it was with no revisions, the dow would crash to 6000 and there would be martial law in america? You can't have oversight on a federal reserve plan! (or audit them for that matter) That would be insanity.
Sarcasm included.
"The federal reserve is NOT federal, and its money is not backed by any reserves."
- 5 votes
Because they don't care and they are all making a huge profit. I guarantee the CEO's and other high ups are getting some huge bonuses this year or the money is somehow getting funneled through secret accounts to them.
The American Taxpayers are being legally robbed.
- 4 votes
The Fed is a private business for the banking system not for the people of this Country, mark my words they are a cancer you cannot cure untill you change this current system. Take the fed under control of the elected officials in Government, say NO to a free Fed.
- 4 votes
#11 - Sun Dec 14, 2008 5:11 PM ESTThis is a planned conspiracy by the powers that be to bankrupt the world, and they are doing a really good job...If you can bankrupt the world, control the flow of money, then you also can control the people who are out of jobs..If an organization is bankrupting us to the point of significant layoffs, benefits will be cut, retirements will be cut, healthcare will be cut, mortgages will cease to exist and housing will not be available..Then the powers that be will step in with min. wage jobs and everyone will be excited to work and this will create a world that would be considered third world by todays standards...
- 5 votes
Governments are elected but the Fed & Banks control , that is wrong. Control the banks that is are only hope.
- 3 votes
I am beginning to think this whole bailout is a scam and there are people who planned this so they could get the millions before the new administration took over.
- 1 vote
The Problem goes beyond the FED - the government owned central banks of other G7 countries have all the same problems. The real issue is the fractional reserve banking system. This system is nothing more than reincarnated FEUDALISM. The problem is that to fix it requires a complete 180 on everything that we believe in ... property ownership, debt, money, credit .... It requires a move away from debt of any type ... even the concept of ownership - because it begets debt. We were threatened with it by Paulson et al - we would go back to the barter system .... Money in itself is not bad - but credit is. We are being raised to be indebted from birth to death by organizations that don't own anything, don't even have any of their own money (at least not that they are putting up), nor add anything to the economy at all. Bankers are middlemen, and very very very expensive ones. Interest is nothing but a fee for their services as issuers of money. The money itself is based on 2 things - the GDP of your country and your promise to repay your debts. They also need a pesky thing called a reserve of 0 - 7% of the loan ... but there are ways around that too.
The question is why does the government need a middleman? They can issue the currency directly. They wouldn't ever need to borrow again - just print the money! Why do we need to borrow ever increasing amounts of money? a generation ago an average housing payment represented 10 - 15% of our gross pay, today it is more than 30%. Taxes too, they mostly go to these fees - government debt, military spending, etc. How about all the money we pay out to corporations that go to interest on debts that they have? Interest is the single biggest expense we have - and it is nothing be a middleman's fee to handle the issuance of money!! Einstein said "Compound Interest is the most powerful force in the universe!"
Can we cut out the middleman? Who knows ... It would be tough. Thats the 1 million dollar question!! The mantra of banking has become so pervassive that its hard to believe that banking as we know it is a little over 150 years old. For most of the last 2000 years it was illegal to be a banker, and certainly the early bankers were seen as little more than con men. How then have they become Paragons of our society? They are the ones we look to for advice on the economy, jobs .... It seems that money can cure all ills. It was said: "If I control the money supply, does it really matter who makes the laws?"
it wont matter because us consumers will never get that rate, give the big banks 700 billion and cut the rate to zero and they will still charge us six percent or more, doc of va is right, cut the outsourcing crap and bring back the jobs. Our people need the jobs not the foreigners. 2 million people out of work, and our government gives tax breaks and incentives to ship our much needed jobs overseas. Are the policy makers really american? our country really needs to reverse this trend . Why doesnt the government make that rate available to us citizens? Bernanke AND Paulson pull your heads out. The banks dont need it the people do!
#12 - Sun Dec 14, 2008 5:15 PM ESTThe end is near. There is only 1 answer. Jesus Christ.
- 1 vote
#13 - Sun Dec 14, 2008 5:16 PM ESTJesus helps those who help themselves, maurice. Get involved and try to make your community, this country and the world in general a better place. Sitting back and watching while doing nothing to change the situation accomplishes nothing.
- 4 votes
So what do you suggest we do CD??? And what are you doing?
- 2 votes
I wish some crazy constitutionalist would start the next revolution already so we can get this country back on track. Where are all the George Washingtons?
- 4 votes
Trusty, you'd be surprised at what I've done and what I currently do to make my community and country a little better. I don't like to publicly disclose all that I do for others so if you're interested you can contact me through Newsvine and I'll clue you in.
Help in the schools, that's the only ticket these kids have to a better life. I work part time and volunteer at an almost inner city school, and volunteer at my kids' high school. Also, if there is a call for donations, please give. I spend hours of time and hundreds of dollars every school year because of budget cuts so that kids can be involved in choir, band, and sports. (And many do far more than me.) If the teachers need paper or supplies of some sort, I line up. This is a wonderful school, not perfect, but a great high school, suburban but not rich, and ethnically diverse - and fairly upper socio-economic level. That's what we need to aim for, and we do have section 8 housing busing in, so hopefully those kids will be pulled up.
Keep kids busy with activities, as my mom always said, a tired puppy is a good puppy - they need time and money for programs to keep them from the fringes of society.
- 3 votes
Question: "God helps those who help themselves - is it in the Bible?"
Answer: "God helps those who help themselves" is probably the most often quoted phrase that is not found in the Bible. This is actually a quote from Ben Franklin and it appeared in Poor Richard's Almanac in 1757. In fact the Bible teaches the opposite. God helps the helpless! Isaiah 25:4 declares, "For You have been a defense for the helpless, a defense for the needy in his distress, a refuge from the storm, a shade from the heat..." Romans 5:6 tells us, "For while we were still helpless, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly."
- 1 vote
I can't speak for God. However, I am absolutely sure that a "helpless" person would not include a person who was so greedy that they bought a 500K house with a 50K salary.
I would say that a "helpless" person is one that because of extremely poor health and/or age, that person can't possibly produce any income whatsoever and has no family or friends to support that person.
Please, everyone, let's make sure we understand God's use of the term "helpless".
Sorry, but if you have ANY roof over your head and ANY food in the fridge, then you are fortunate.
- 2 votes
I agree Greg. Those people should be left to default on there house.
But then you have the people where maybe the Mom, Dad, or both might have been laid off and unable to make mortgage payments...........
Also, with all the home foreclosures, people that ARE making there payments and have no problems, seeing all there equity in there house wiped out because of housing foreclosures around there house or seeing there home cut in value to where the house isn't worth the what they are paying for the mortgage. Then they decide to just let the bank have the house (ie, why pay $300k for a house worth $150k?), further expanding and making this issue worse.
- 2 votes
Vendetta, George Washington would be a considered a crazy anti government zealot in today's climate, second if he wasn't part of the establishment he couldn't get on the ballot much less win an election, here in Illinois he couldn't beat Bozo the clown if he wasnt endorsed by the machine. We are locked into a corrupt system set up to support the party's keep them in power and keep their message on track through the media outlets that are infested with their former employees.
- 1 vote
I have been hearing for years from the NRA gun freaks that one reason they need firearms is in case the US government turns into a dictatorship and they need to defend their liberty against a corrupt regime.
Does anyone know exactlly how corrupt the US government needs to become before there is a revolt and the guns come out?
- 3 votes
Another important quote from the Revolution:
"Those who give up a little liberty for a little security will have neither and lose both" - think about what the founding fathers fought for, and the principles that this country was founded on. Doesn't go real well with W or Cheney ... or any other modern leaders!
Jesus would certainly disagree with one big part of our society today - the fact we live in a society ruled by "money changers" (bankers) or tax collectors. There is a lot of issues with the business of banking and credit in the Bible, and Jesus himself, nor his disciples were fans of these guys.
Jesus preached and lived in way that is very communal - he would have little sympathy for most of us whose lives revolve around wealth and possessions. Jesus was unanimous in placing people before possessions.
Quote: "A rich man has as much chance seeing heaven as a camel of going through the eye of a needle"
I might be wrong here but if the banks are'nt loaning the money then what does it matter what the interest rate is. Unless they are going to redo my loans with the lower interest rate ? What if we bail out the American people instead of the business. This way we can pay off our bills which will free up more money for the banks to loan. Also would cause spending to go up which in return will create more jobs.
- 2 votes
#14 - Sun Dec 14, 2008 5:42 PM ESTken grate, don't fall for that bull.
The banks ARE loaning money. Anyone with any kind of decent credit can get a mortgage, auto loan, etc.
How's this for a revolutionary concept: Stop borrowing money, live within your means and pay off your existing debt.
But then I guess Americans wouldn't be able to eat three times as much as they need and they wouldn't own that 52 inch plasma TV and have that 5 bedroom house with three cars!
Better get use to not having every material whim satisfied brothers and sisters because you economy is circling the bowl and pretty soon you will be living within your means whether you like it or not.
- 2 votes
But I need a 60 inch TV, a six bedroom house, and 4 cars, OR ELSE!
These things are my RIGHT to have!
And if I don't get them, the American taxpayer should then feel sorry for me and send more money to the government!
Cause MY NEEDS are the most important of all!
- 1 vote
Why would anyone borrow money (even at 0%), given the fact that you may not have a job tomorrow. We all have to take a hard look at our consumption and where it is coming from, because frankly, we have imported ourselves out of jobs. We need to get back to a reasonable wage level and manufacture the goods and services that we consume, in America, by Americans !
- 2 votes
#15 - Sun Dec 14, 2008 5:49 PM EST" We need to get back to a reasonable wage level and manufacture the goods and services that we consume, in America, by Americans !"
No, we need to reform NAFTA and the WTO so that there is fairness in world trade. The inequities of fair trade and the manipulations of world currencies are the cause of the problems American businesses face.
Are you suggesting we lower our wages while the price of consumer goods and services continues to skyrocket, again due to the inequities of world trade?
People don't seem to worry about that, Skipper. It's an "I gotta have" society. It has been much too easy for Americans to borrow for everything. High interest rates on credit cards, huge mortgage payments, car payments..on and on and on. There was a time when credit cards came through the mail (pre-approved). If people would buckle down and pay off what they owe, we might be in better shape. They can't even sell merchandise in the stores. Stores are still pushing getting their own credit cards. This, they ought to stop. Sixteen to twenty one percent interest? What the heck is that? Loan sharks in a three-piece suit is what it is. But as long as we keep that buy now, pay later mentality, we will suffer the consequences. Unfortunately, so will those of us who don't fqll into the trap. C'est la vie!
- 1 vote
CD - These are good points. but you have to see that banking is what is behind globalization. Currencies, Credit flows, free trade are all constructs in the Global Usury business. We need higher wages to get us out of this deflation ... without it we are stuck. All the bailouts can't fix the payment to income problem that virtually every American has. The solution is either we revalue the debts, or we increase the incomes ... take your pick.
At present our main export is: Federal Reserve "banknotes". The problem is that it doesn't take a lot of people to create virtual money. And we are not going to pay them much either. We have seen real incomes decline since the 70s - coinciding with the beginnings of globalization - and as a result of misguided neo con economics, the rich are significantly richer since they are basically all bankers. We no longer produce much of anything here other than guns and drugs that anyone wants. We still have some IP, but increasingly that is aged computer monopolies based on university research in the 60s and 70s.
The problem is in our soceity doing whats best for your neighbors and country are not as important as making money. Globalization makes money, and diversifies geo political risk. We need a pretty strong incentive for these companies to bring back the jobs ... and I don't see anything in the offing. NAFTA and the WTO aren't the cure they are barely even symptoms.
The mess we are in is because of the Fed. We need to abolish the fed. Go to . Our government is getting rediculous with all this spending. If you want a clue what is going on, listen to Ron Paul and Peter Schiff. Our government is clueless!!! They cannot fix this problem. We are heading for a GREATER DEPRESSION.
- 4 votes
#17 - Sun Dec 14, 2008 5:54 PM ESTi believe the link you were trying to post is http://www.endthefed.us/
- 2 votes
Bob great post!! I agree we need to abolish the Fed and yes I also agree that the ONLY prime time financial analyst on cable news that tells the truth is Peter Schiff (to bad that everyone else thinks he is crazy). Mr. Schiff has been 100% correct on all his predictions the last 10 years! Also check out Jim Rogers!
Vendetta- I attended the End the Fed rally in DC on Nov 22! We need to get everyone involved! The next rally I believe is set for April 15th (not sure)! We need to get at least 5,000 people at every location (40 rallies across the country simultaneously)!
- 4 votes
I disagree.....................we are in this mess because no one owns anything outright. Everyone is mortgaged and credit carded to the hilt. It's a deck of cards.
- 1 vote
Optomyst-that is our point...by the Fed lowering rates, it only encourages people to go our and borrow and get more into debt! The Fed created the atmosphere by flooding the market with excess capital that enabled Americans to go out and buy homes with no money down...let alone a damn job!
- 1 vote
Oh I get it now, it's like a competition between the Fed and the Treasury Department to see who can loan the most money the quickest. Why didn't they just say so in the first place. I can't wait to see which one gets to ten trillion dollars first.
- 3 votes
#18 - Sun Dec 14, 2008 6:01 PM ESTHow bout we just cut the fed? We should have never had that corrupt private bank running our economy in the first place.
- 4 votes
#19 - Sun Dec 14, 2008 6:21 PM ESTWe shouldn't, it's crazy it's all about the control, migrating to having the chip implanted in all of us, for the ulimate control, most recent step toward this was the Patroit Act, taking more and more freedom from us. We on our last chance I don't plan on being a slave to anyone, especially a bank! Americans are so brainwashed and distracted with our electronic gadgets, movies, sports, sex, impressing our neighbors, living beyond our means...etc, the vast majority has failed to notice USA is not far off from becoming a 3'rd world country. WAKE UP AMERICANS!!!
- 2 votes
Apparently there are enough Congress members that agree with our general population to put a hold on this stupid effort to bail out the automakers. Let the bastards go bankrupted. There are enough greedy rich people to bu8y up the firms involved, then retool and keep on going. That way, we save all the previously planned money to give away plus getting a few billion of rich folk's money back into circulation.
- 1 vote
#20 - Sun Dec 14, 2008 6:32 PM ESTYa it's too bad they didn't agree with us on the first bailout. Instead they showed us they care little what the american people think. Besides a few true americans, the only members who voted against it were those up for reelection.
- 2 votes
They're afraid to do otherwise. They have been bombarded with e-mails, telegrams, letters and phone calls because the people are fed up. They know their jobs are in jeopardy. Purely selfish motives on their part.
- 1 vote
i am all for letting bad businesses fall but to give the banks 700 billion with no accountability on the first 350 is crazy considering they wont give the auto makers money to save AMERICAN JOBS i know people say that they are paid to much put you have to see the domino effect if the auto makers were to go down now the banks should not have been BAILED OUT as we see nothing has been used to help the AMERICANS losing there homes as what the bailout was proposed for
- 1 vote
These people at the Fed are pretty dumb. Cutting interest rates doesn't do anything at this point except discourage people from saving and give people more incentive to borrow what they don't have. That's what got us into this mess in the first place.
It isn't going to help anyway, because the banks aren't lending any of the money we've been giving them in the bailout - they're too busy enriching themselves by buying up other banks.
- 1 vote
#21 - Sun Dec 14, 2008 6:48 PM ESTwell you have to understand what their goal is bankrupt the economies force people to accept the NAU and the Amero or whatever they will be calling the new currencies once the dollar has lost its value in the eyes of the world
- 1 vote
Cutting house lending rates doesn't effect those who already own houses and are locked into an interest rate for a period of years until their finance term is up and they can take advantage of the new rates. If you want to give the consumer more spending power right away and more instant confidence in the economy, try cutting the credit card rates. And I don't mean by half a percent, I mean by 10 per cent.
- 1 vote
#23 - Sun Dec 14, 2008 7:00 PM ESTAshleigh, but that will just encourage more people to charge more stuff, and that's what got us into this mess in the first place.
Seems funny that no one can figure the economy out. If at the start, they would have lowered the interest rate on housing, people could have re-financed their house at an affordable rate. Problem solved.
If the banks don't want to issue credit to customers after receiving their bail out, lets just have them refund the money that was given to them, and let the banks fail that have failed to help the people. Problem Solved.
On the 3 Big Auto Companies, let them fail if they cannot manage their finances and try again with a meaner cleaner company. Problem solved.
- 3 votes
#24 - Sun Dec 14, 2008 7:11 PM ESTLower the interest rates more?????????The little money I have invested in C.D.'s isn't paying anything now ! I have to partly live off the interest, which is very little at 2.90 interest. I am a senior citizen and can't live on social security. What happens to my income if the rates drop any more? Are the Feds crazy?
#25 - Sun Dec 14, 2008 7:22 PM ESTYES they are! Crazy that is.
They have never HAD to live on an unreal income by today's standards.
I sure hope the new administration understands economics better than the last one. These Bush folks haven't caught on that lowering the interest rate at this point is not going to encourage borrowing because those folks don't have enough cash to pay back the loan. Instead, lower interest rates only hurts those people like myself, with savings. Now I won't be spending, either, because I'm not receiving any interest. What the Feds need to do is stop playing with the interest rate like it's a game. Just fix it at 1% for the next year and let the economy stabilize and adjust.
- 1 vote
Lets at least set it so it matches their "cost of living" rate of 3 %.
- 2 votes
Priscilla...If your CDs drop their interest rates more the bank will probably have a bigger spread between what they pay you and what someone who borrows money pays them. The banks will make more money. You will make less money. You will need to take money out of the CDs to live on because the government lies about the actual cost of living increases. They lie because it costs them less money in Social Security payments. Is the government crazy? No, they are crazy like a fox guarding the henhouse. People involved with government make big money. They take care of their own. When Social Security was started they knew that most people would not live long enough to cash out what they had put in. Now, with people living longer they will up the retirement age and lie about inflation to pay people less money. And with the trillions of dollars that are being "spent" to shore up the banking, wall street, and other businesses... dollars are going to lose a lot of value. Priscilla, live as well as you can for the remainder of your days. Try not to worry too much. We are all going to suffer through the mess that is coming so hang in there.
- 1 vote
The banks don't want you to refinance, thier making more money at your'e current rate. They'll take the chance to see if you can keep making payments. Why do you think they have so much bad paper. They could have helped alot of the people who were foreclosed on
- 1 vote
#26 - Sun Dec 14, 2008 7:41 PM ESTExactly! And if they have their way we will all be renters someday, and the rich will be our landlord/employers.
- 2 votes
Tim,
Right on! This is probably the reason why the Feds aren't encouraging the lower rates for those would like to refinance, the profits on interest would be slashed. Besides, that would take money away from the rich and put in the hands of those who really need it.
- 1 vote
The thing that irritates me is they can borrow money at 1%, Prime Rate is 4% but I am still paying up to 29% interest on credit card balances....cut my interest rate too....that would give me more money to spend and help boost the sagging economy. Sorry family and friends, but I am being Scrooge this year for Christmas...definitely not spending like I have in the past...trying to pay of those credit cards!!!!
- 1 vote
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